tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post4966298196531508159..comments2024-03-11T16:29:13.619-05:00Comments on Lingwë - Musings of a Fish: Slavic echoes in Tolkien — A responseJason Fisherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-63906611244121460902013-08-09T21:25:53.613-05:002013-08-09T21:25:53.613-05:00Hi everyone!
Interesting topic, no question about...Hi everyone!<br /><br />Interesting topic, no question about that. But l would like to go back, to the vety question why Old Good Writer DID fail to learn Russian or Serbian, while having learned Finnish, which is, all of us know, not Indo-European at all? Was his mythology, despite his denials, primarly Nordic and hence less universal then we are ready to admitt? <br /><br />Is there a inherent classification of cultures and languages suitable (or not) to be a part of the LOR saga? <br /><br />Just some heresies :)<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Darkodarkodjogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15944499263978408348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-31399951718560014222013-06-24T15:34:09.788-05:002013-06-24T15:34:09.788-05:00Mae govannen, Maria! Glad to hear you like “Musing...Mae govannen, Maria! Glad to hear you like “Musings of a Fish” too. I wrote a post at the very dawn of the blog explaining it. :)Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-63409719100719229932013-06-24T13:13:24.173-05:002013-06-24T13:13:24.173-05:00Well met Jason :)
I must say that I was shocked t...Well met Jason :) <br />I must say that I was shocked to see the last entry not so long ago, and it was a very pleasant surprise. It goes to show how hungry we all are of (rather than for?) :) the Story - which is proving to be more and more endless... <br />It was good to see Richard Orr's input as well, and many other people's interesting contributions. <br />Of course my main thanks goes to you for bringing the entire matter to attention, an issue I have quite frequently raised in my mind, and for REACTING: so much has been written on the Man, so many unjust words have been spoken, and even when the criticism isn't turned against him (actually, even more so then!) it is important to point out the misconceptions... <br />Now I'm pretty sure if we were in Wonderland, the Queen would be screaming: off with her topic, but I hope I'll be forgiven on account of praise being well within the spirit of Fellowship - and in this case so well deserved.<br />Or, as I will allow myself some more liberty to quote the great Storyteller: I perceive with gladness that the duguð (noble company in a king’s hall) had not yet fallen by the wall, and the dréam (sound of their voices and music of their feasts) is not yet silenced. <br /><br />My best :) <br /><br />P.S. (Seeing how I'm on an off-topic roll here): Musings of a Fish is a killer of a title ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18189203067927511907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-53985328095416245872013-06-24T12:26:16.668-05:002013-06-24T12:26:16.668-05:00Hi, Maria. Good points, and well said. I basically...Hi, Maria. Good points, and well said. I basically agree with you! Thanks for adding your voice to the conversation, one that I must say has continued to interest people far longer than I expected! :)Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-16488204111565597802013-06-22T03:43:21.960-05:002013-06-22T03:43:21.960-05:00Hello all. Intriguing topic. As a native speaker o...Hello all. Intriguing topic. As a native speaker of Serbian with a bit of a background in Slavic mythology (and probably more than a bit in Tolkien, lol), I must say that to me the only thing here that makes any sense (ie has some actual validity) is the use of the name Radagast. Tolkien's extensive knowlegde in various fields of mythology does open up a strong possibilty that he had come across the name of this deity. The problem with Slavic mythology is the fact that very few actual records have been perserved (half of which have in the course of time proven to be false), very much along the lines of a "missing mythology" Tolkien himself complained about. There is no actual certainty with which we could claim that this deity was connected with the sun or harvest (actually it is highly unlikely). The one thing that does seem plausible, mainly due to the etimology, is that in fact it was a deity associatd with hospitality. There are various transcriptions of the name, the most common one being Rad-gost, "gladly seen guest". As for everything else - well :) in my mind it just doesn't hold up. Tolkien was much more prone to inventing than to incorporating historical (mythical) records, albeit there are some exceptions on the grounds of achieving specific "historical validity". <br /><br />My best to all of you Tolkien myth-defenders!:)<br />MariaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18189203067927511907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-40094881199861150382013-04-12T16:37:14.642-05:002013-04-12T16:37:14.642-05:00I don't consider this spam at all. As far as I...I don't consider this spam at all. As far as I'm concerned, this is all very relevant, even if not (yet) convincing. :)Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-46150658297799143262013-04-12T13:56:57.032-05:002013-04-12T13:56:57.032-05:00Yes, I agree with you that all those languages are...Yes, I agree with you that all those languages are Indo-European and that the discoveries don't shed much light on understanding of Tolkien's fiction. My point of view is more linguistic than mythological, since my field of interest is linguistics. <br />Some new info on Indo-European languages:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_signs <br />"symbols mostly considered as constituting an instance of "proto-writing"."<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_language <br /> " Anyone wishing to hear how Indo-Europeans spoke should come and listen to a Lithuanian peasant."<br /> —Antoine Meillet<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marija_Gimbutas <br />"a Lithuanian-American archeologist known for her research into the Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures of "Old Europe"."<br /><br />Once again, I'm not trying to shine light on mythology but the origins of words and languages and how hard it is to determine how they were created. However, I'm about to enroll in an online Coursera course which main interest is world mythology, so, hopefully, I'll know more on the subject soon. :) <br />I also want to explain that I became interested in the subject because of the possible Slavic origins of some of the names and other words Tolkien used, as they seemed familiar to me, e.g. Boromir ("Bor" either a "pine tree" in Serbian or "bori" meaning "to fight", "mir" - a word for "peace" in Serbian; I'm mentioning Serbian only, because I don't speak any other Slavic language and therefore I can't connect other Slavic words with the words Tolkien used), Radagast (a Slavic god of household whom some historians connect with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava), "medved"- "bear". Many, many pagan customs are still present in rural Serbia and I keep discovering them either by talking with elder people or just by observing the customs i.e. rituals they still practice. There were other people who either tried to or learned Serbian "Goethe and Jacob Grimm learned Serbian in order to read Serbian epic poetry in the original". As I already mentioned, I'm about to start studying mythology and there's a whole chapter on Jacob Grimm (the author of Deutsche Mythologie) who was German, so I hope I figure out why he was so interested on our epic poetry. <br />Also, White city, although the name was not mentioned in the book stroke a resemblance to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgrade which literally means White city and was previously called Singidun meaning "round fortress" in Celtic and when I saw drawings of Minas Anor it reminded me of the Belgrade fortress. http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2012/01/11418066144f249f363c546217016056_orig.jpg<br />The tribes Goti and Avari are also connected to the region of the Danube river as well as Celtic and German tribes. Once upon a time there was a sea in that region before there were rivers which made me wonder as well. So, generally, because Tolkien himself said that what he wrote had already happened I became interested in what he was hiding behind the names of the cities and mythological creatures and so far I just have nothing but guesses. :)) When I read that Tolkien himself never called Minas Anor the White City, I figured out I probably connected the two erroneously, lol.<br />I hope I'm not spamming since what I've posted here has little to do with Tolkien and more with origins and interconnectedness of languages. <br />Cheers and I apologize for the possible grammar mistakes. :)<br />Иренаhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03619710534974770497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-68965653329001899412013-04-12T10:51:23.875-05:002013-04-12T10:51:23.875-05:00Thanks very much for your comments, Irena. This is...Thanks very much for your comments, Irena. This is very interesting indeed. Even without linguistic mixing, the Slavic, Germanic, and Celtic branches are all Indo-European, so they all have a common ancestry anyway. But certainly, it might be difficult to know whether certain etymons were borrowed, by which groups, and in which directions; however, this doesn't alter the fact that Tolkien's expertise was in the Germanic branch and, to a lesser degree, the Celtic, but not very much at all in the Slavic. While, again, the recent discoveries you mention are indeed interesting, I must stand by the conclusions I drew in the seventh paragraph of my original post (counting the bulleted list as a single paragraph). In a nutshell, these theories and discoveries do not shed very much light on our understanding and appreciation of what Tolkien was doing in his fiction — at least, not unless further evidence should come to light in Tolkien's private papers.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-42225456757837188772013-04-12T10:18:00.209-05:002013-04-12T10:18:00.209-05:00Hi, I just wanted to show you this:
Recent resear...Hi, I just wanted to show you this: <br />Recent research has discovered evidence of the co-existence of the Slavs and the Celtic tribes in the region of Liptov in northern Slovakia, near the area of Liptovská Mara. Investigators discovered six Celto-Slav colonies and the site of a castle with a sanctuary in its centre, used for Celtic and Slav rites. Slav tribes also coexisted with the Germanic Quadi, according to the latest findings of the Czech archeologist J. Poulík.<br /><br />The two competing theories are not necessarily mutually exclusive.Contemporary scholarship in general has moved away from the idea of monolithic nations and the Urheimat debates of the 19th and early 20th centuries, and its focus of interest is that of a process of ethnogenesis, regarding competing Urheimat scenarios as false dichotomies.In prehistoric times, the Neolithic Starčevo and Vinča cultures existed in or near Belgrade and dominated the Balkans (as well as parts of Central Europe and Asia Minor) in 6200–4500 BC. The Paleo-Balkan tribes evolved in the 2nd and 1st millennia BC. The northernmost Ancient Macedonian city was in south Serbia (Kale-Krševica). The Celtic Scordisci tribe conquered most of Serbia in 279 BC, building many forts throughout the region. The Roman Empire conquered the region in the span of 2nd century BC-1st century AD. The Romans continued the expansion of Singidunum (modern capital Belgrade), Sirmium (Sremska Mitrovica) and Naissus (Niš), among other centres, and a few notable remnants of monuments survive, such as Via Militaris, Trajan's Bridge, Diana, Felix Romuliana (UNESCO), etc.<br />This means that two languages were mixed and that it's not possible to determine which word came first- Slavic or German. Иренаhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03619710534974770497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-52534766559259778882012-11-03T15:52:20.301-05:002012-11-03T15:52:20.301-05:00Hi,
"Boromir" indeed sounds Slavic (as ...Hi,<br /><br />"Boromir" indeed sounds Slavic (as explained above) and, indeed, a Slavic name "Borimir" really exists (although it's not very frequent). I don't think it is just a coincidence (Tolkien of course provides internal etymology but that's a completely different point). "Faramir", however, besides the suffix, does not sound Slavic ("f" is not a Slavic sound originally).<br /><br />The name "Radagast" sounds pretty Slavic as well (Proto-Slavic *radU means "glad" and *gostI is "guest"). Like "Boromir", it would be really strange for this to be just pure coincidence, since again both the root and the suffix is Slavic. And this is also a real name, cf. e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardagast<br /><br />"Mirk(wood)" definitely sounds Slavic (Proto-Slavic *mIrkU "dark") but it could be Germanic just as well (and the latter is definitely more convincing).Mojmirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05435906593265654513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-44462697542899731762011-09-14T12:32:21.529-05:002011-09-14T12:32:21.529-05:00A little addition from me about Russia. Mordor sca...A little addition from me about Russia. Mordor scary name I think was taken directly from the Ural province of Mordovia. This country certainly has awakened interest in Tolkien and gave some guidance in the languages of Middle-earth. In Mordovia people use two languages, very different from each other, one official, other popular. Why are implemented and how these languages have arisen no one can say today.bogoizbraniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15046727854153069324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-41263852525481403462010-05-05T10:55:40.474-05:002010-05-05T10:55:40.474-05:00Hi, Robert. Very nice to hear from you! I hope you...Hi, Robert. Very nice to hear from you! I hope you’ve subscribed to this thread or are checking back. I’d be very interested in seeing a copy of the essay on “mirk, murk” to which you refer above. I may even have cause to cite it in some of my own recent work. I don’t have ready access to the journal/proceedings you mentioned, so a PDF (or other electronic copy) would be <i>most</i> welcome! If you can oblige, my email address is visualweasel [at] yahoo [dot] com.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-83845349180565823092010-05-05T00:14:20.330-05:002010-05-05T00:14:20.330-05:00hi!
Robert Orr here. delighted to see that my pi...hi!<br /><br />Robert Orr here. delighted to see that my piece has perked up some interest. I've developed the "mirk" issue in a more serious article:<br /><br />“Murk - a Neglected Slavic Loanword in Germanic?”, Canadian Contributions to the XIII International Congress of Slavists, Ljubljana 2003, Canadian Slavonic Papers XLV: 1-2: 47-60, 2003.<br /><br />meanwhile, I've got some more material in the pipeline, including comments on LOTR in Lithuanian...Robert Orrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-75572933178403075712009-12-10T09:53:35.966-06:002009-12-10T09:53:35.966-06:00Hello, Dmytro, it’s wonderful to hear from you! Yo...Hello, Dmytro, it’s wonderful to hear from you! You need not apologize for your English; it’s certainly much better than my Ukrainian! :)<br /><br />I appreciated your feedback and clarification as to the goals of the piece you published in <i>Literary Studies</i>. I hope my criticisms did not strike you as too harsh; it sounds to me like you accepted them in the spirit they were given (i.e., meant to suggest ways to improve your research methodology and to guard against making untenable assumptions).<br /><br />I hope to see further research from you in the future. Thank you again for dropping in and leaving your feedback.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-46985938113994237742009-12-10T05:24:42.522-06:002009-12-10T05:24:42.522-06:00Many thanks for criticism :)
I was very (and agre...Many thanks for criticism :)<br /><br />I was very (and agreeably) surprised by this response. <br /><br />At first I should say that main purpose of my little article was not to make deep "original research" but just to generalize and summarize previous researches in that field and put it into Ukrainian literary studies. And make some conclusions. Last maybe really "goes too far".<br /><br />My main interest on Tolkien is in "literary reconstruction" as a method of his creative writing. Exploring it I separate and observe different "cultural levels" in his multicultural world, even peripheral as Slavic.<br /><br />Anyway, I'll make corrections in next researches on that field, trying to be more careful with statements that based on slight arguments.<br /><br />Sorry for my English :)Dmytro Kuzmenkohttp://kuzmenko.org.uanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-9378981266636311582009-12-05T15:44:16.458-06:002009-12-05T15:44:16.458-06:00That makes sense. It would certainly catch your ey...That makes sense. It would certainly catch your eye if you saw a whole name like Boromir in some piece of historical literature or mythology! It could always be possible Tolkien had seen it too, and remembered it (consciously or not), but most likely he didn’t. I’m glad to learn of the name from you, though. If you would care to tell me (and my readers) more about where you’ve seen this name, I think we would all be interested. :)Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-91528484412264254362009-12-05T13:48:06.210-06:002009-12-05T13:48:06.210-06:00Thanks for reply, Jason. I think your comment make...Thanks for reply, Jason. I think your comment makes sense. In fact, I didn't, specifically, searched for Slavic roots of Tolkien's names. But, I remember that Boromir sounded very "familiar" for me, as a native speaker of a Slavic language, the very first time I read the LoR.<br />Now, I see that it's most likely just a mere coincidence.<br /><br />Best regards!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-28554605228951274612009-12-05T10:23:37.278-06:002009-12-05T10:23:37.278-06:00Hi, Anonymous. Thanks for writing!
I think this i...Hi, Anonymous. Thanks for writing!<br /><br />I think this is no more than coincidence. Tolkien himself said that the name Boromir was composed of mixed elements of Quenya and Sindarin (<i>The Lord of the Rings</i>, App. F.I, footnote 2). Tolkien indicated that the name meant something like “enduring jewel” and was “an old N[oldorin] name of ancient origin also borne by Gnomes [i.e., Noldorin Elves]” (<i>The Lost Road</i>, “Etymologies”, entry for BOR, p. 353; see also the entry for MIR).<br /><br />There is a danger in hunting through dictionaries looking for possible roots to Tolkien’s names based on some preconceived idea as to their appropriateness. For example, the meaning “world + struggle” sounds like it might fit Boromir, but this alone gives us no reason to adduce a Slavic source.<br /><br />I’ve seen the same kind of thing done with Germanic sources, with (in many cases) as little or even less justification. For several examples, see the appendix to David Lyle Jeffrey’s “Tolkien as Philologist”, in <i>Tolkien and the Invention of Myth</i> (ed. Jane Chance, University Press of Kentucky, 2004), pp. 77–8. Jeffrey suggests that Boromir contains Old Norse <i>boro</i> “ruler” ... but why? One might just as well suggest Old English <i>bora</i> “ruler” + <i>mierra</i> “deceiver”. After all, that sounds like it fits the character of Boromir well enough, doesn’t it? Ah, but then why not make it OE <i>bora</i> + <i>mirg</i> “pleasing, agreeable”, or OE <i>bora</i> + <i>mere</i> “sea, lake”?<br /><br />You can see that there is a temptation to cherry-pick an etymology that seems to fit after the fact. This is a faulty approach, even though it occasionally reveals the right answer — but then, only when there is additional evidence (e.g., that the choice of source language is also backed up by other things we know about Tolkien, a preponderance of other related names fitting the same source pattern, etc.).<br /><br />This is about as much as I can say in a single, fairly short comment. Perhaps this would make a good subject for a post of its own ...?Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-70850752694222471292009-12-04T19:35:42.298-06:002009-12-04T19:35:42.298-06:00Dear Jason,
Thanks a lot for bringing this very i...Dear Jason,<br /><br />Thanks a lot for bringing this very interesting topic up. I found your blog after googling Slavic "influences on Tolkien."<br /><br />I have one concrete question. Any ideas about the origins of name "Boromir." <br /><br />I mean it sounds complitely Slavic and, in fact, there is a Slavic name Boromir, a combination of two words "borba" - struggle and "mir"-world.<br /><br />Is it just a coincedence or Tolkien, had the Slavic inspiration for this name?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-11182345513079401042009-11-05T12:18:36.182-06:002009-11-05T12:18:36.182-06:00Thanks for the links, Alek. I am certain that Mark...Thanks for the links, Alek. I am certain that Mark (especially) will be very interested in these, and I will make sure he sees them.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-7454605310787609522009-11-04T18:57:18.806-06:002009-11-04T18:57:18.806-06:00Perhaps, you'll become interested in my Live J...Perhaps, you'll become interested in my Live Journal posts about Mark Hooker's book "Tolkien Trough Russian Eyes" - it's rather my essay, peculiar response to the American monograph...<br /><br />A few months ago I have read Hooker's book and an idea to write the response on it fired my imagination. If Mr. Hooker examined the numerous Russian translations of "Hobbit" and "LOTR" on Western eye, why can I not to exam the Mark Hooker's text on Russian one? Finally, Russian Culture consciousness/context is peculiar text - and it's importantly to read it a true way. <br /><br />My essay is a little sketchy, may say, a draft to more detailed work (I hope), so here can be some inexactitudes, so I would be glad any replies, questions and notes...<br /><br />I'm not a linguaist, but just a reader (may say, a fan) of Tolkien's stories. My essay is in a few parts now (and to be continued).<br /><br />I have to say that the text is in Russian (seems, you said about using a authomatic translation in some cases), but there are parts that I translated into English. I can translate these fragments that a reader/blogger ask me...<br /><br />Here are links:<br /><br />"Hobbit in valenki felt boots"<br /><br />1. - Откуда ноги растут (вместо предисловия) The Legs of a hobbit<br />2. - Перетолковать толкование Толкиена / Talking about the talk of Tolkien<br />http://alek-morse.livejournal.com/25418.html . <br /><br />3. - Советская правда и китайская грамота / Soviet Truth and Doubl-Dutch<br />4 - Казус буй / Casus Buoy<br />http://alek-morse.livejournal.com/25791.html <br /><br />5 - Убить дракона, или Пропущенное звено / Kill the Dragon, or Lost Link<br />6 - Время Боромиров / A Time of Boromir<br />7 - Сошлись Запад и Восток / The West and the East meet<br />http://alek-morse.livejournal.com/26093.html <br /><br />8 - Затерянный между букв / A Lost between the Letters<br />http://alek-morse.livejournal.com/26174.html<br /><br />9 - Две адаптации - две твердыни / Two adaptations, Two Towers <br />http://alek-morse.livejournal.com/26466.html<br /><br />10 - Толкиен против Толкиена / Tolkien versus Tolkien<br />11 - "Властелин колец" на языках Средиземья / "LOTR" in the languages of the Middle-Earth<br />12 - На слух / On hearning...<br />http://alek-morse.livejournal.com/27104.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-12489241491186606932009-11-02T15:45:18.442-06:002009-11-02T15:45:18.442-06:00Thank you so much! :)Thank you so much! :)Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-88635713572505917302009-11-02T14:28:45.931-06:002009-11-02T14:28:45.931-06:00Keeping my fingers crossed, Jason. You've got ...Keeping my fingers crossed, Jason. You've got my prayer.<br /><br />I hope you'll find some time later.<br /><br />Reikhardus = Galadhorn :-) Greetings from Poland.galadhornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00743806388792756679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-32031433133984945712009-11-02T13:54:25.495-06:002009-11-02T13:54:25.495-06:00Thanks for the valuable comments, Reikhardus (Rich...Thanks for the valuable comments, Reikhardus (Richard :). Very useful information! I would say more, but alas, I suddenly find myself in the position of looking for a new job. That must take priority over leisure philology for a little while. Not too long, I hope!Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-22627251657061655632009-11-01T01:14:17.642-06:002009-11-01T01:14:17.642-06:00@Jason, you wrote:
"In fact, thinking of Slo...@Jason, you wrote:<br /><br />"In fact, thinking of Slovak, Hunyak, etc., would it be fair to say that the -ag suffix in Russian варяг is analogous to –ak (or perhaps not; I don’t know whether the я is “divisible” in that way)."<br /><br />In my opinion these <b>-ag</b> and <b>-ak</b> have different etymology, the first being Russian simplification of the original <b>-ęga</b> (Russian <b>варяг</b> is <b>waręga</b> in Old Polish - the Germanic suffix <b>-ing</b> was adapted in Old Slavic as <b>-ęgь</b>, <b>-ędzь</b>; cf. Germanic *<b>kuningaz</b> > Old Slavic *<b>kъnędzь</b> 'lord, sir, prince' (Polish <b>ksiądz</b> 'Catholic priest' is its today meaning).galadhornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00743806388792756679noreply@blogger.com