tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post6657035996795023548..comments2024-03-11T16:29:13.619-05:00Comments on Lingwë - Musings of a Fish: Google linguam latīnam additJason Fisherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-20023402133305894672010-11-30T08:46:01.386-06:002010-11-30T08:46:01.386-06:00But seriously, using Latin poetry may not be the b...<i>But seriously, using Latin poetry may not be the best option for “statistical machine translation”, because of the amount of hyperbaton and other devices you find.</i><br /><br />Oh, definitely! You’d get in similar trouble attempting to offer Old English based on the poetic corpora, rather than the prose.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-72084379997763785182010-11-30T08:29:03.582-06:002010-11-30T08:29:03.582-06:00The current limitations of this specific bilingual...The current limitations of this specific bilingual corpus can be tested thus:<br /><br />I entered another famous line from the <i>Aeneid</i> (VI.268): <i>ibant obscuri sola sub nocte per umbram</i>, and got "On they went dimly, beneath the lonely night through the gloom", which can be called acceptable, being almost verbatim the Loeb translation (with "through" for "amid"; and notice that Google even added the capital).<br /><br />The grammar of the line is very simple and straightforward. There is a double hypallage that has been much celebrated, but it only implies putting <i>obscuri</i> with the subject and <i>sola</i> with <i>nocte</i> - the only difficulty can be in the semantic level, since the epithets appear to be "exchanged".<br /><br />But grammar had nothing to do with the translation. Just "correct" the text (incidentally destroying the poetry) to mean that "on they went alone beneath the dark night through the gloom", and enter this: <i>ibant soli obscura sub nocte per umbram</i>, as short-sighted commentators said the line should be understood. The result is awesome:<br /><br />"they were going on his Dark throne under the shadow of the night, by"<br /><br />It's no longer Aeneas and the Sibyl going underground, but Frodo and Sam going to Mordor. If you read online Latin translations of Tolkien's Ring verse you see that "on his dark throne" appears regularly as <i>in (/on!) solio obscuro</i>. So much for the "corpus" :)<br /><br />But seriously, using Latin poetry may not be the best option for "statistical machine translation", because of the amount of hyperbaton and other devices you find. I fed the machine some Cicero, Seneca and Boethius but it didn't seem to recognize them, though it might have made more sense; after all, in their blog they say: "Hoc instrumentum convertendi Latinam rare usurum ut convertat nuntios electronicos vel epigrammata effigierum YouTubis intellegamus. Multi autem vetusti libri <b>de philosophia, de physicis, et de mathematica</b> lingua Latina scripti sunt" (emphasis added).Hlafordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570318115206193131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-50930842106583363612010-11-29T18:19:39.322-06:002010-11-29T18:19:39.322-06:00What, no Quenya? :)What, no Quenya? :)The Cat Bastethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08766507614966971022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-16742063825171034872010-11-29T15:17:29.625-06:002010-11-29T15:17:29.625-06:00Agreed. But I feel it’s a promising start for an “...Agreed. But I feel it’s a promising start for an “alpha” release. Presumably, the beta version will be better, and the final version better still. Of course, there will always be lacunae in the lexis. It’s interesting Google would take aim at Latin, a language if not dead then at least in deep repose.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-53571550289675839202010-11-29T15:11:51.765-06:002010-11-29T15:11:51.765-06:00Just tried this very rapidly:
Latin (hurriedly in...Just tried this very rapidly:<br /><br />Latin (hurriedly invented):Attamen , patres conscripti, censeo Carthaginem delendam esse.<br /><br />Google: However, the Members of the Senate, in my opinion to Carthage to be destroyed<br /><br />Not very good, IMO ...David Doughannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-62205481561549692672010-11-29T13:54:01.748-06:002010-11-29T13:54:01.748-06:00I’ll leave that to you. Feel free to report back o...I’ll leave that to you. Feel free to report back on your experiences.Jason Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05809154870762268253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9050528436539921312.post-24394517644110416702010-11-29T13:47:33.405-06:002010-11-29T13:47:33.405-06:00Google Translate works off of bilingual corpora, s...Google Translate works off of bilingual corpora, so feeding it well-known passages is not a fair test. You should instead use obscure works, or better yet, compose your own Latin prose and see what you get.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.com